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Bruce Simpson
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 6060
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 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: TradeMe's critics lash out at scam (9 Aug 2007) |
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This column is archived at: http://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2007/0809.shtml
Are TradeMe placing the mighty-dollar ahead of the best interests of their users?
Are they deliberately steering clear of providing users with timely, accurate warnings about scammers because it might scare business away and because the eradication of fraud would render their SafeTrader service redundant?
Have you been scammed on TradeMe?
Why aren't TradeMe running their own ScamBusters operation for the benefit of all users?
If TradeMe had to start from scratch (ie: a user-base of zero) do you think they'd ever regain their current critical-mass or is it just that critical mass which allows their dominance to be maintained? |
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digidog
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 189
Location: Queenstown
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce Simpson wrote: | | Are TradeMe placing the mighty-dollar ahead of the best interests of their users? |
Indeed they are and it's getting worse all the time.
Alexa stats show that 0.2% of TradeMe traffic comes from Romanian IP
addresses. Given that Romanian scammers have posed TM's biggest scam
threat for almost five years, why are they not actively blocking these
criminals?
TM argue that the Romanians could simply use proxy servers to get
around any block. But they don't have to, because TradeMe already makes
it easy for them to list scams and rip off kiwis. That attitude to security
does TM members a disservice and frankly it stinks for a $700m company.
The current DVD scam is significant only because of its size - 250 or so
victims is unusual for a single TM scam. Had the scammer used a number
of IDs and kept his frauds below $300 or $400, chances are he would have
got away with it. The Police will not generally accept complaints of TM
frauds below this amount, and TradeMe themselves actively assist this
type of fraud by incorrectly referring victims to the Disputes Tribunal.
If you buy a used widget on TM which turns out to be faulty or is not as
described, then you have a dispute on your hands. When a trader lists
items which don't exist and grabs your money, that's fraud... pure and
simple. TM are more concerned with keeping their name out of crime
stats than with helping victims who have been ripped off on their site.
That's the real reason TradeMe remove any reference to scams and ban
anyone who mentions "ScamBusters" on their site. It's a cynical PR ploy
from a $700m Goliath with a bad attitude.
Interestingly, users from the TradeMe offices were the heaviest users of
the ScamBusters' site in June and July. If we can spot obvious scams on
their site then why can't their full time security team do the same?
SafeTrader
TradeMe admits that very few people use their SafeTrader service. And
rightly so. It's clunky and (in my experience) can take up to two weeks
for a seller to receive their money. |
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Peter
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 2355
Location: Dunedin
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Something here doesn't make sense, I know someone recently who was overseas and keeping an eye on their Trademe sales and Trademe contacted them and said they were not allowed to do it. But they were not in Romania. |
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Online Gamer
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 919
Location: Auckland, NZ
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: TradeMe's critics lash out at scam (9 Aug 2007) |
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| Bruce Simpson wrote: |
Are TradeMe^H^H^H^H Fairfax placing the mighty-dollar ahead of the best interests of their users?
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Most definitely..
I think they are seeing that slamming it to their customers is not the way to get there $900M back...TradeMe was built on customer support and patronage, the new owners should realize you don't bite the hand that feeds you.
TradeMe skyrocketed when it first came out, it can fall just as fast if management keep it up. Reminds me of a place called 7AM.com when it went under new management 
Cheers |
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digidog
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 189
Location: Queenstown
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Peter wrote: |
I know someone recently who was overseas and keeping an eye on their
Trademe sales and Trademe contacted them and said they were not
allowed to do it. |
The most likely explanation for that is that somebody complained to TM
that your friend was not in NZ.
While TM do record IP addresses they don't appear to actively screen them
on login. The Romanians behind all of the TM phishing emails over the last
eighteen months have netted hundreds, possibly thousands of valid TM
login emails and passwords. And they're using them to operate scams.
We know from our contact with these scammers (using throwaway email
accounts) that they don't bother with proxies... they're perfectly happy using
Romanian IPs. TradeMe could knock these guys out easily *if* they had the
corporate will to do so. But there's no profit to be made in increasing
security and Fairfax have $700m to recoup. That appears to be the company's
main motivation these days.
The 996 hijacked TradeMe user accounts we've recorded since February last
year are only the tip of the iceberg. Every new phished account gives these
scammers access to the victim's recent trading history including the email
addresses of everyone he/she has traded with. They have a database of
TM users second in scope only to TM's own.
Keep in mind that those 996 hijacked accounts are only the ones that have
been actively used to list scams on TradeMe, and that we've spotted. There
are probably many more that we've missed along the way. We're only a
bunch of well-meaning amateurs after all. |
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edwin
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 1230
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm amazed and impressed at how many scams ScamBusters have uncovered. |
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digidog
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 189
Location: Queenstown
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks! It's not brain surgery which is why we're so surprised that TradeMe
can't find them themselves.
Even sillier... the Romanian scammers keep reusing a limited number of
throwaway email addresses. Save them as a favourite search and the TM
system emails you every time a scam is listed. Why ever can't TradeMe
use the same method internally?
TradeMe security is a half-hearted affair at best. |
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tash12
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Manawatu
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Why do trademe dislike "scambusters" so much? The scambusters do an excellent job and have helped a lot of traders that have been ripped off.... |
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edwin
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 1230
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| tash12 wrote: | | Why do trademe dislike "scambusters" so much? The scambusters do an excellent job and have helped a lot of traders that have been ripped off.... |
C'mon, that's an easy one: Scambusters makes TM look bad. It gives them a bad reputation. |
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digidog
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 189
Location: Queenstown
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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ScamBusters is TradeMe's only public critic and they go out of their way to
discredit us whenever they can. They've also started a more sinister campaign
to silence us recently by disabling two of our core members and one other
person who they incorrectly identified as being involved with ScamBusters'
admin. Our six core members have been identified on our website for the
last four years FFS. How wrong can TradeMe get it?
We've also had legal letters from Buddle Findlay accusing us of all manner
of crimes including "impersonating TradeMe staff via telephone". We've asked
three times for proof of their wild claims but none has been forthcoming.
In my experience TradeMe as a corporate entity are liars and bullies. If
they'd just put their house in order ScamBusters wouldn't have a job to do.
Shooting the messenger is a dumb move that's likely to backfire on them.
. |
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tash12
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Manawatu
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: Trademe dont give a toss about their members |
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| Thats why so many traders get scammed. Trademe are going to lose all their valued members, if they dont tighten up their act. If they had restricted the amount of auctions a new member can run at one time, then maybe all those poor traders wouldnt have been ripped off! |
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